I just started testing the multiplayer, and already Wall of Reflections seems way too good. Is this card legitimately unfair, or am I missing something? 

My personal jury is still out on it.  It got me good in a match last night; however, in another I was able to dispatch it in a couple of rounds.

 I think the card is the perfect weapon for the illusionist. A great way to force some damage through and tie up an annoying creature. It's perfectly costed because Phantom Warrior and Spectral Assassin are also very attractive cards and it's really hard to choose which one will do you the most good.

 Completely rediculous card. It doubles the damage of 'geddon, which basically means a win. At the very least it reads 4- do 20 damage to your opponent and stop a creature for a bit. I shouldn't have to sit on a tornado just to remove a 4 cost card. It makes acid rain do 15 to my opponent. Lets not forget how it also gets worse with multiple. The only way to win against it is play around it, and drop something like a wall of lightning in front of it, and even then you still get hurt when you nuke (as most nukes affect all). Needs a nerf, preferably in its cost. If it cost as much as tornado, it would be a different story. 

I think it WOULD be completely broken if it weren't for hidden card lockouts.. I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure you can't get nature ritual with it, and I've yet to get rejuvenate with it... I don't think I've gotten armaggeddon with it either come to think of it...

 We really need to know whats locked out now that we're playing human opponents.  If someones playing an illusionist vs illusionist match, and they don't have reflective wall, and they've taken notes on cards for each game they may be able to tell 1/4 of my deck or something.

Imagine

"I don't have reflective wall, so my opponent does."

lets say if he has reflective wall, he can't have geddon, acid rain, nature ritual. (for fear of making uber combos that can be thrown down in 3 turns.)

I have farie sage, elven healer, stone rain, and master healer, sooo

he must have forest sprite (only remaining low cost card).

if he has forest sprite he can't have orc chieften.  ** this is a known locout combo

I have wall of fire, dragon, bargul, infero,

so he has fire elemental (only high cost card remaining after geddon) or minotaur chieften (if they went 8-12 from 9-12 like they planned), likely both.

 all this before he plays a single card.

And good luck beating him if he's figured out OTHER hidden combos, because even one more fire or earth card eliminated and you could nail down even MORE cards.

What really bothers me is this isn't in any way mentioned in the documentation at all, and more importantly is 100% obfuscated from a new player... heck even some experienced players might not have put together that this is happening yet.

 going second may become WAAAY more important as one it lets you see one more opponent card, and two it gives you more time to analyze what cards he wont' have before you have to play something.

 

EDIT:

Sooo I did some hotseat comaring, and after a dozen hands the list of cards I hadn't gotten with a reflective wall was:  Acid rain, nature ritual.

I DID get merfolk apostate, armaggeddon, and reflective wall.  so on turn 4 I put out 40something damage, it was cool.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I have gotten several games with armageddon and wall of reflection, I've gotten it with acid rain and rejuvinate, and I've only played 4 games on multiplayer. 

I will admit that it doesn't actually double the damage of 'geddon, as it can only do up to 20 damage, and doesn't do the extra damage.

 Also, I would ask for some credibility added to your combo lockout proposals, as well as you not sidetrack this thread.

 I maintain that the wall is undercosted, although the whole illusion wizard thing seems very strong in comparison to the cleric.

Wall of Reflections is definitely too good. It virtually guarantees 20 damage, perhaps distributed over time, but not necessarily very much time, and encumbers the opponent greatly in use of spells and creatures. Depending on card distribution though, it can range from just quite good to ungodly. I would say, however, that Ice guard is actually a nice and fairly cost-effective counter, IF you have him. I suggest the following changes: -The card does not deal retribution damage at the moment of death. -Self-inflicted damage does not get bounced to the enemy.

A significant cost increase would be acceptable as well, perhaps with a health increase. a 10 costing wall is much less fearsome, since you don't feel so bad wasting tornado on it, and having such a game changing effect attached to a 10 cost isn't as bad as a 4. Perhaps switch it with oracle, and take her attack power down? The flavor and art of the oracle doesn't quite fit the 10 attack she weilds.

nah, sorry, I totally was gonna type about what I thought would make wall of illusion more reasonable and then got sidetracked.   I'm bad like that.  As for the combo lockouts I was mentioning probable ones.  I'm only positive of reflective wall/ acid rain, reflective wall/ nature ritual, forest sprite/orc chieften as banned combos.  well and I think you can't get all three of fire priest, merfolk elder, elf hermit  in the same hand (but thats an unlikely enough draw I could be wrong).

My problem with it is, theres basically nothing you can outright to kill the wall that won't kill the creature its blocking too most of the time. (yea ok a full house of baddies and wrath of god, is the exception... and actually I guess cannonade would clean house.. maybe mechs would wreck illusion.)

If I could choose to bite the bullet and take it like a direct damage spell by toasting it with inferno or something, so at least my baddy got some damage through, I'd feel a lot better about it.  Most of the time I end up trying to get rid of it quickly, as two of them on the table severely limit my options, but its going to block one round for sure and still hit me for 20 damage.

 Like it was said, ice guard makes em quite bearable, but I cry a little inside, every time I cut out of my water escelation at 6... waters made to boost early or save till its late in my mind, breaking out midway robs you somewhat.

 One thing thats making me think of it in a weird light is the fact that lightning walls tend to live at least 3 turns against me, and sometimes a lot more.... I'm wondering if they don't hurt me more and block more, becuase I underestimate them.  (the key difference with them for me is that I can stop its damage at any time or so I tell myself).

It is almost certainly too good, especially in combination with your own mass dmg effects, as others have noted.

Some  possible fixes:

 a) make it deal 50% of the dmg it takes.

b)  reduce its health to the 15-17 range

c) make it sensitve only to damage from your opponent

 cheers,

dave 

Richard posted before stating that spells in your "speciality" are supposed to be roughly twice as powerful as spells in "normal" mana. This is why wrath isn't considered under costed for example.

By this logic, you should consider if the wall is under costed at 8 normal mana. 

I think it probably isn't.

However, I'm not sure if this fully makes sense since I think that some of the other speciality mana spells are probably not good enough by this doubling argument.

Indeed, I would never play the paladin if he cost 2 to play. He is terrible enough at 1.

 I dont think any other specialty card survives this argument, so as you seemed to indicate at the end, double power does not

translate into double mana cost.

 

There are at least 2 ways a card can be overpowered in a game like this:

1) Relative to the card set: Well, even relative to the other specialty card pools, i think most people would agree it is a pretty wide

outlier here. 

 

2) Dominates play: At least in my experience, it comes close to this even before you blow it up yourself with armegeddon, acid rain, or stone

rain. One reason for this is that almost all of the removal in the game is via damage, so wall of reflection has a very strong chance of doing 

1/3 your opponent's life total at a cost of 4.

 

Few cards force/channel play as much as Wall of reflection, and they mostly cost in the 11-12 range (e.g. armegeddon, astral guard, etc.).

More damning, not every draw permits a good response. 

 

Best, 

 

Dave 

 

Duke Kalas:

Indeed, I would never play the paladin if he cost 2 to play. He is terrible enough at 1.

 

wait wut? 

I think that the Wall of Reflection is clearly a game-swinging card.  The problem I have with it is there is NO way to counter-act the effects of playing it.  If someone plays a large creature I can try to kill it quickly.  If someone has Drain Life or Wrath of God, I can play cheap creatures and not overextend myself.  If Illusionists have spells that damage me in proportion to my own creature powers, I can avoid huge creatures.

But how can I avoid Wall of Reflection?  There is no way, save Tornado.  I can use smaller creatures to take the damage down over time, but other than that there is NO WAY to avoid taking the full 20 damage eventually.

So here is my suggestion for a change to it - Have it deal  damage equal to (Damage - 3) to your opponent.  This would mean that weaker creatures would deal with it well, but big creatures and damage spells would still be a significant threat.  Armageddon would still be amazing with it.  Another alternative would be to have it reflect all spell damage and half of creature damage - that would again encourage people to destroy it with creatures.  A third might be to have it reflect only the *first* damage that struck each turn.  This would mean that Wall of Fire, Forest Sprite, and Call to Thunder could all be useful partial counters.

--Mr. Strange

I think those all make decent compromises 

I agree that the card makes Holy quite helpless, and almost everytime swings things in favor of the player using the combos with it, even with another ilusion as adversary.

 

Having said that I played against a necro yesterday, and something as extreme as the wall with armaggedon was the only way to stay close to a win. It doesn't seem all that overpowered when the opponent has so many control combinations. 

I agree with Mr. Strange. It's a wall of reflection, not a wall of flailing-counter-attacks. It seems fairly obvious to me that it should be great at returning damage dealt to it by spells, but what part of a wall made out of mirrors is good at reflecting an earth elemental's fists? Illusion shouldn't be the most offensively-oriented class of wizard, but right now it certainly seems that way. Having a wall that's good at keeping a creature away because you can't just knock it down with a fireball seems right up their thematic alley. I would even argue that upon taking away its ability to reflect creature damage, the cost could be dropped to 3. Alternatively, it could simply reflect the damage back to its source. That is, it hits back creatures who hit it and players who cast spells at it.

 Im clearly in the minority, but I dont really feel the Wall is overpowered.   It blocks a creature and does a predictable amount of damage (20). The rate at which the damage is dealt is generally predictable within the context of any given game.  It cant damage creatures in any way.  I play mostly Holy and I dont ever cringe when the Wall lands against me.  To compare with other specialty cards:  I find the 4 mana Ornithopter far more annoying, and Ive dealt more devastating combos with a 4 mana Divine Justice than Ive had done against me with the wall.  The 4 mana 7/40 Emissary of Dorlak seems rougher as well, but the AI never seems to play that, so its harder to say.

 

-Andy