Dave C. always does a great job at running RPGA events. I'm sure if WOTC makes up there mind and goes Dave will do his best to make sure that everything runs smoothly and he has enough DMs.

 

Mike

CyrusDuane:

 

 I posting this here and hoping it's not going to get buried.

My Wife and I are coming to Gen Con with high expectations for the RPGA events this year.  Both she and I are casual RPGA members (we play at the con or two we go to each year, that's it) and prefer home play to RPGA structure in general. For con games, we like playing RPGA events because of we can usually count on the adventure itself being of at least "good" quality, and in past years at Gen con we have spent maybe 70% to 85% of our gaming time at RPGA events. That's a lot for casual RPGA members, but it's basically because she goes to play D&D and try one or two new RPG systems. 

This year we are going to Gencon with an open mindset about 4E, hoping that GenCon will provide us with the stimulation to move our home campaigns from 3.5 to 4E, or to stick with 3.5.

 Not having more RPGA info about events up at this phase has me concerned. The RPGA is going to make or break my 4E conversion this year. I don't want rushed modules, a lack of events or a lack of RPGA DMs for the events. (No fault on the DM's part, those guys work their butts off for the RPGA events. -- I always see RPGA tables cancelled at Gencon due to DM shortage, however)

I've played some good non RPGA D&D events, as well as some good Call of Cthulu, Rolemaster, Ubiquity (HEX) and Aces and Eights. I also hope that for an introduction to 4E, the GM is well prepared with a good module to win people over. I think you'll be pleased with how much some of these independent GMs really put into their event.

Welcome to the boards!

Hey Dreads, If you believe that Gencon is not necessary business for WOTC, I have a bridge to sell you. WOTC sells games. That is what they do. And the flagship of their gaming empire is about to release a whole new update, aimed at quintupling revenue by having the faithful buy all new books, supplements, etc. The largest gaming convention in the world is about to be held. The place where the Alpha Consumers for your product are, the ones who are the first adopters and usually become free advertising and your best sales force. And the posturing, and that is all it is at this time, posturing, that WOTC is engaging in, if followed through would mean giving up that chance, or limiting that chance, to influence your core consumers and maximize your new product launch. Insanity. Companies owe creditors on a regular basis (more and more in the current economy) and continue to have fruitful working relationships. If every company that owed money to another severed or limited their business, the US economy would literally seize. I do not know what game WOTC is playing at the moment, but it could be a very costly bluff for them if they do not realize the price of a mistake here.

I agree wholeheartedly with Cyrus. I'm already somewhat dubious about how much of an "improvement" 4E will be over 3.5, and though I understand the legal messiness of Chapter 11, I don't believe for a second that WOTC has no other recourse than this "wait and see" attitude. The economy is tanking, and money is tight. Hell, a plane ticket to GenCon this year cost me just under a week's pay. I think WOTC could make a fatal mistake by pulling out, or having RPGA presence at GenCon in an extremely truncated form. And if they are one of the creditors, they DO want to get paid, right? If any higher-ups at Wizards are reading this thread, then I urge them to work something out regarding the LFR rollout at GenCon this year......you've already pushed your luck by upgrading from a beautiful system so quickly. I vote with my wallet, and I have a long memory, nor do I suspect that I'm alone in that. GenCon wouldn't be the same without a big RPGA component, and I can't imagine Wizards without a close GenCon partnership.  

 Regarding the LFR rollout - the Kublacon catalog has the following info on a 4e preview.  I expect the date is a mistake, but you never know...

 

Edit - answered in another thread.  No problem.

There is only so much Dave C can do... This just posted on the LFR yahoo board.

 

Posted by: "jcregister2000" jcregister2000@yahoo.com

Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:17 am (PDT)

I just looked over the event listing for GenCon (what they are calling a compleate list of events) and there are no RPGA events listed, looking over their message boards I found a post that seems to be saying "that due to GenCon being in chapter 11 that WOTC is not going to attend. Can anybody shed any light on this?" I was still thinking that LFR was to launch at GenCon.

Well I recieved an official email back from WotC that was different than the ones I have been reading here.

I quote:

Here is a brief FAQ concerning your questions:

Q: Why are there no D&D or Wizards events on the schedule posted for Gen Con at www.gencon.com?

A: Wizards had not submitted a schedule of events by the Gen Con deadline. Since we hadn't submitted our own schedule, none of our events are in the official Gen Con schedule at this time.

Q: Will Wizards attend Gen Con in 2008?

A: As you may be aware, Gen Con is currently in chapter 11 bankruptcy. Wizards' plans relative to Gen Con are dependent on the course of proceedings in US bankruptcy court. While we hope to participate in Gen Con, we must await further proceedings in the bankruptcy matter before we are able to confirm our plans.

Right, that's what I got too, plus the Living Realms answer in addition.

I can say from multiple decades of both direct interaction with or friends direct interaction with the RPGA, that they are ALWAYS disorganized and are almost always late on stuff.

Thomas Dean:

Hey Dreads, If you believe that Gencon is not necessary business for WOTC, I have a bridge to sell you. WOTC sells games. That is what they do. And the flagship of their gaming empire is about to release a whole new update, aimed at quintupling revenue by having the faithful buy all new books, supplements, etc. The largest gaming convention in the world is about to be held. The place where the Alpha Consumers for your product are, the ones who are the first adopters and usually become free advertising and your best sales force. And the posturing, and that is all it is at this time, posturing, that WOTC is engaging in, if followed through would mean giving up that chance, or limiting that chance, to influence your core consumers and maximize your new product launch. Insanity. Companies owe creditors on a regular basis (more and more in the current economy) and continue to have fruitful working relationships. If every company that owed money to another severed or limited their business, the US economy would literally seize. I do not know what game WOTC is playing at the moment, but it could be a very costly bluff for them if they do not realize the price of a mistake here.

 

I am talking from a legal perspective.  Not a gamer or marketing perspective. The legal world works differently.  Gencon would hurt themselves by continuing to do business with a client that is in bad credit standard, no matter what the positive effects are.  Of course its a no brainer from a marketing perspective, but its asanine from a legal perspective.  

But the root of the issue is not WOTC but the RPGA.  Granted the RPGA is controlled by WOTC but it is its own separate organization.  There are plenty of conventions where RPGA events are run but WOTC does not have a presence.  Whether Gencon owes WOTC money or not should have no bearing on whether RPGA events are run.  That might account for whether WOTC wants to have some big booth or whether they want to do some big launch event for LFR.  At any other convention, if people want to run RPGA events, they do.  Nobody asks WOTC permission other than event request.  So in my opinion if WOTC is not allowing RPGA events at Gencon because of the bankruptcy deal, this is political based not legal based.

Besides, I saw some WotC Axis & Allies events...

 A question for the RPGA rep here.  Do you know if RPGA can submit their events directly to GenCon, or if they have to go through Wizards?  

CyrusDuane:

 Not having more RPGA info about events up at this phase has me concerned. The RPGA is going to make or break my 4E conversion this year. I don't want rushed modules, a lack of events or a lack of RPGA DMs for the events. (No fault on the DM's part, those guys work their butts off for the RPGA events. -- I always see RPGA tables cancelled at Gencon due to DM shortage, however)

Tables in the ordering system are not cancelled because of a DM shortage. We sit everything we offer tickets for. We then sit 10-15% more on top of that with generics but we do run out of judges before we can meet the demand for those events. I recruit the best judges I can find and as many as I can find but it will never be enough (which is not a horrible thing).

Dave C
RPGA Senior GM

Beowulfe:

But the root of the issue is not WOTC but the RPGA.  Granted the RPGA is controlled by WOTC but it is its own separate organization.  There are plenty of conventions where RPGA events are run but WOTC does not have a presence.  Whether Gencon owes WOTC money or not should have no bearing on whether RPGA events are run.  That might account for whether WOTC wants to have some big booth or whether they want to do some big launch event for LFR.  At any other convention, if people want to run RPGA events, they do.  Nobody asks WOTC permission other than event request.  So in my opinion if WOTC is not allowing RPGA events at Gencon because of the bankruptcy deal, this is political based not legal based.

Just a lot of bad information here.

The RPGA is not it's own separate organization. We never have been. The RPGA is owned and controlled by Wotc. We are run through their Organized Play department as a way to promote their games and gaming. Within that structure there are rules on ordering and running events on your own for conventions and retail events that Wotc does not attend. If the RPGA attends as it has in years past no you cannot run RPGA events at the show outside of our banner. So at Gencon 2007 the only RPGA events ran through me and my staff in Sagamore Ballroom. It's true nobody asks Wotc's permission other that the event request but there are rules for those event requests. It is also up to Gencon whether they even accept that request (and if Wotc's coming with their full RPGA wagon loaded then no they're not going to upset them by allowing you to do the same).

Dave C

onyxguenhwyvar:

 A question for the RPGA rep here.  Do you know if RPGA can submit their events directly to GenCon, or if they have to go through Wizards?  

Wizards/RPGA are one and the same. It's like asking if your foot can kick somebody without asking your brain permission (though my wife says I can put my foot in my mouth withing thinking about it and do so often).

Dave C

 Thanks for the info wavester, I wasn't sure what the relationship between the two was. 

 Your wife may say that you put your foot in your mouth without thinking,  but that's probably just so that she thinks she has the upper hand!

onyxguenhwyvar:

 Thanks for the info wavester, I wasn't sure what the relationship between the two was. 

 Your wife may say that you put your foot in your mouth without thinking,  but that's probably just so that she thinks she has the upper hand!

and I let her think that as often as I can. LOL

Dave

My point is still valid.  If WOTC chooses not to attend for whatever the reasons, the RPGA should still be allowed to run events. Whether it is with the official WOTC/RPGA bandwagon and all its glory or just a smaller group that decides to host events.  At this point, the only purpose being served is ticking off the client base. The modules presumably have already been approved by HQ.  So if someone were to host and schedule events for LFR, then if WOTC decides to attend, have those events roll over to you Dave, presuming you'll be in charge again this year.  Worse case, fewer events are run.  Best case, WOTC decides to attend and you are green lit to schedule.  Then you could add more tables.  Either way it is a win win for the players.  So would something like that be allowed?  Gencon grants person X the ability to schedule the events with the agreement that if RPGA comes they would assume ownership?

braewe:

Besides, I saw some WotC Axis & Allies events...

 These are run by a "Greg Smorey" though under WOTC host group. It looks like he he has officially been running the Axis and Allies tournaments for WOTC for a few years, though he is a volunteer.

 

His website can be found at:

 http://www.geocities.com/headlesshorseman2/smoreyswamp.html

 

 

 

 

wavester:

CyrusDuane:

 Not having more RPGA info about events up at this phase has me concerned. The RPGA is going to make or break my 4E conversion this year. I don't want rushed modules, a lack of events or a lack of RPGA DMs for the events. (No fault on the DM's part, those guys work their butts off for the RPGA events. -- I always see RPGA tables cancelled at Gencon due to DM shortage, however)

Tables in the ordering system are not cancelled because of a DM shortage. We sit everything we offer tickets for. We then sit 10-15% more on top of that with generics but we do run out of judges before we can meet the demand for those events. I recruit the best judges I can find and as many as I can find but it will never be enough (which is not a horrible thing).

Dave C
RPGA Senior GM

 

 Dave, I am not sure I understand that statement. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but on Sunday of 2006 that there was a problem with having enough DMs, or that is what we were told. I know my group was told to ask for refunds for our event (I beleive it was the third module of the Xen'drik campagin) We did have specific tickets to the event. This also happened to me in 2005, on that Sunday.  (Can't remember the 2005 event)

That kind of stuff happens, especially on a Sunday morning after a long big Con. There are not hard feelings on my part.

 I am just concerned that with specifically 4E modules involved about two months after 4e hits shelves that there may be less GMs available. I want the RPGA events to have the best possible chance for sucess in my overall perception this year.

EDIT: And if there is anything RPGA members can do to help with this year, let us know.