M

Glory:

Artwork:

I'm not complaining about not getting in.  I'm complaining how a lot of people year after year can't even get a chance to be logged in to purchase any games because the site is bottlenecked.

 

But this is just blatantly untrue. Yes, lots of people don't get in and yes the site does get bottlenecked. But on the other hand lots of people do get in! And they get events! There is absolutely no way to make it any fairer than it is now.

I was able to log into the site 45 minutes prior to TD reg. I set up my add events page and then I waited. I know some people who set up multiple pages the night before, and others who only logged onto the site 10 minutes prior. Yet still others claim, that at the exact time I was getting logged in, they were getting time-out pages. Who is right and who is wrong? No one. Was I luckier than some people? Yes. THIS YEAR. Next year there is a very good chance (just like this year) that I might not get all the events I wanted (and in fact I didn't get all the events I wanted). 

The fact of the matter is, people do get on and get their events. You are acting like no one got any events ever in the history of GenCon and it is starting to drive me absolutely nuts.  I get that all you want to do is open up discussion, but honestly, a Draft Lottery will never work and I honestly don't see GenCon ever implementing one. YMMV, of course. But, it's just not going to happen. 

In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if we had the exact same problems on event reg for the next five years running.  

I agree with you glory, Every year for 8 straight years (7 online years) I have gotten a majority of the events i wanted. I have been at 3 different job, one without any internet access and was able to arrange ahead of time to get to an internet source to register.  Even this year, 1.5 hours after log in opened, i got some really cool games i wanted that would sell out. 

Artwork:

 It is silly to live with the same problem and just say,"Oh well that's how it's always been."

Guess it just keeps getting overlooked: it hasn't always been this way. In the bad old days, before the very handy registration they currently have, GenCon used a lottery system. It was not fun. You looked through a catalog, wrote event numbers in a prioritized list and hoped you got something. Then you waited. And waited. And waited. You still had the same odds, but this time you got the added fun of not being able to plan anything for weeks. Should you start painting those miniatures for that tournament? Should you be working on that costume for the Hello Kitty Cthulhu LARP? Sure, but you won't have a clue if you're going for months. Fun!

The perceived "imperfections" of the current system are still superior to a delayed lottery, particularly the "delayed" part. 

From figures cited previously by GCLLC, in previous years it's been a small minority of people who experience significant issues with registration. I doubt this year is any different. That minority is typically very hostile and vocal, but is still just that: a small minority. The vast majority of people register with varying degrees of frustration (zero to tolerable), get their events and move on. Those that don't at least know where they stand, as opposed to waiting weeks/months to find out (as the system used to demand, and as a new lottery system would return). I.e. the current system is better on all counts.

I know it's hard to let go of an idea you think is wonderful and unique, but this gets debated every year and is shot down every year for the same very good reasons. Nothing personal at all. 

I don't like the idea of a lottery system. Call me crazy, call me stupid, call me a masochist, but I want to design and control my own schedule, its priorities, and its alternatives. When registration time comes, I want to be the one who picks one event over another. I want to be the one to make those last minute decisions and suffer those waffling indecisions. I don't want someone else to make those decisions for me.

Nuts, we've had a month or more to get our schedules going, what with Derek and crew releasing event information early. We all settled on our schedules and their alternatives with varying degrees of satisfaction and confidence, and after we hit that Submit button, we knew then and there what we got and we could adjust as needed. A lottery system will not allow that.

I don't know how many hours you spent putting your wishlist schedule together, Artwork, but I think I invested ten to fifteen hours in mine. Now that's just one person. If we pass this responsibility for our enjoyment off to Gencon, just how many man-hours and computer-hours are they going to have to put into designing potentially and hopefull satisfactory schedules for as many as 30,000 people? People who are going to waffle? People who will change their minds throughout the season, not just once but a number of times? People who will show up at the con, see what a shambles their schedule is (whether it's due to their changed expectations, forgotten requests, or incorrectly entered requests), and demand different events or their money back, then not return.

The crew at Gencon has their hands full as it is, what with all the logistics of planning the conventions, coordinating event time and space, and what have you. They don't need the additional responsibility / headache of planning our vacations for us, too. No, the responsibility for our time needs to stay in our hands.

('Sides, a little server lottery sort of adds a little excitement to the whole process now, doesn't it? <g>)

CraftyShafty:

From figures cited previously by GCLLC, in previous years it's been a small minority of people who experience significant issues with registration. I doubt this year is any different. That minority is typically very hostile and vocal, but is still just that: a small minority. The vast majority of people register with varying degrees of frustration (zero to tolerable), get their events and move on. Those that don't at least know where they stand, as opposed to waiting weeks/months to find out (as the system used to demand, and as a new lottery system would return). I.e. the current system is better on all counts.

 GCLLC claimed that eh?  I wouldn't start to begin to believe them.

 If the lottery idea isn't going to fly, then Gen Con had better dish out some money and start buying more servers.  When Registration began and it got bottlenecked, they had so much traffic, they posted that they were currently trying to add more servers!

 During registration?   You've got to be kidding me, folks.  If there is only a "small minority of people" who experience this problem, then why did they act like they were adding more servers?

And why didn't they anticipate better?

This is why I'm suggesting alternatives.  The lottery may not be wanted by the few who have replied to this thread, but it is another choice as opposed to what happened Sunday.

I am all about having everyone have total control over their own scheduling, but not with the servers interfering.  It's ridiculous that the spike lasted for only 90 minutes but that was more than enough time for the masses to flood the gates.

Well I'm done ranting.  Although I'm not disagreeing with the fact that I would rather be able to pick my own games live than in a draft lottery, I am tired of pointing out that something has to be done about the situation and nothing ever is.  And year after year, this same thing happens during registration.

You guys have a fun time at Gen Con.  Congrats on those who somehow didn't get affected by the server bottlenecking.

No one lost games because of the bottleneck. You lost games because someone else wanted the slot. Even if Gencon had every server on the planet and registration took two seconds there would be absolutely no guarantee that you would get the games you wanted. The process would certainly be faster but in no way does your chance of not being disappointed go down. So this entire argument boils down to people demanding Gencon spend money so they don't have to invest a couple hours on a Sunday trying to register.

I'd like to click one button and be done. That's be great. But I'm going either way as are 99.999% of the rest of us. It be stupid for Gencon (doubly so in light of their current financial situation) to spend any significant money to shut up the remaining malcontents. In fact they are probably better off without them. In every business there is a certain percentage of customers who simply aren't worth the trouble.

facade:

No one lost games because of the bottleneck. You lost games because someone else wanted the slot. Even if Gencon had every server on the planet and registration took two seconds there would be absolutely no guarantee that you would get the games you wanted. The process would certainly be faster but in no way does your chance of not being disappointed go down. So this entire argument boils down to people demanding Gencon spend money so they don't have to invest a couple hours on a Sunday trying to register.

I'd like to click one button and be done. That's be great. But I'm going either way as are 99.999% of the rest of us. It be stupid for Gencon (doubly so in light of their current financial situation) to spend any significant money to shut up the remaining malcontents. In fact they are probably better off without them. In every business there is a certain percentage of customers who simply aren't worth the trouble.

Come again...huh...what????

ALL CUSTOMERS ARE WORTH THE TROUBLE...say it with me....if you begin adopting your policy you may soon find you have NO customers that complain....because there are NO customers.

I am not a "malcontent" because I want a system that matches the current volume of the company I deal with. This was not an unexpected server flood...this was the same load we've seen every year for the last 4 years, and for many people it was not being outclicked for an event...it was sitting in traffic out by the airport while everyone else was shopping downtown. Do I expect to get every event I sign up for? Heck no. I may well have gotten no events this year even IF I got in, but it's the fact that I could NOT get in that galls me. Business decisions are one thing...and if GenCon feels it doesn't need to spend money on the problem because it's events sell anyhow...wonderful...I get it. However, the focus of their discussion should at least being trying to improve the process every year...I think they are trying to do that. Your approach is short-sided and frankly a POOR attempt at a joke.

Pros to lottery: Less "feast or famine" (get through, get all events, don't, get nothing)

Cons: Hard to plan (I only want x if I didn't get y...)

I want the best of both worlds--have a lottery for one event per person (you can put down your "top 20" or whatever, but once you get in one, you are out of the lottery).  Give everyone a day or so to log in and purchase that event.  Then do the standard stampede.  No problems with schduling, everyone gets one of the events they really wanted.  Might even reduce the craziness if there are some people who really only wanted one popular event, or all of the other popular events they wanted have sold out.

Artwork:

GCLLC claimed that eh?  I wouldn't start to begin to believe them.

That's a really unreasonable position to take. And why bother listening to people who rant like that? Clearly you will complain about something if you refuse to exhibit even the least bit of respect. 

Artwork:

I am tired of pointing out that something has to be done about the situation and nothing ever is.  And year after year, this same thing happens during registration.

I think something is wrong with the forum. I keep posting how the same thing doesn't happen year after year, but I guess the text isn't showing up. Stupid forums! What a terrible company! I'm going to post angry rants! 

Hawkwinter:

ALL CUSTOMERS ARE WORTH THE TROUBLE...say it with me...

Mmm...no? All customers are not worth the trouble. 

Business decisions are and should be made in favor of the largest benefit for the company and the largest/best group of customers. You will not and cannot satisfy 100% of the people, and the expense/trouble involved in trying to do so will sink any company. Why? Because there are always people who will not be satisfied with anything. Face it, some customers are there not for goods or services, but to entertain themselves through mischief. Plenty of ranting from that sort here, but they aren't the majority, nor even a significant minority.

And no, people like that are not worth the trouble professionally.

facade:

It be stupid for Gencon (doubly so in light of their current financial situation) to spend any significant money to shut up the remaining malcontents. In fact they are probably better off without them. In every business there is a certain percentage of customers who simply aren't worth the trouble.

  You aren't involved in any customer facing role, are you? The system didn't fail for a few malcontents, it failed across the board. Events will fill up quickly and there isn't much you can do about that, but no one, ever,under any circumstance, should see a page load error caused by the server or the network under the control of the web business. Not even during the first minute of event registration. It should at least fail gracefully.

  It has been said more than once. Under a dollar per gencon member. That's not a significant amount of money, and it could easily be less money than is currently being spent to do it wrong. When something doesn't work, costs spiral out of control, even when the money spent doesn't provide results.

 I really don't understand why on earth you would be advocating keeping a broken system.

The system didn't fail at all. The point of the system was to sell tickets. Tickets were sold. Did it perform great? No. Did it fail in its purpose? No. Gencon is not in the business of selling tickets nor are they a web business. Gencon's business is putting on a great convention. Event registration is just a small portion of the entire process. Comparing Gencon to multi-billion web based businesses as you have previously done is just not realistic.

I am not advocating for the current system. I am simply stating were I the one calling the shots at Gencon right now I wouldn't invest any significant money trying to fix the problem. And yes in light of their current financial straights I suspect the owners of Gencon, LLC would see your $1 a participant cost as significant. From a cost perspective there is insufficent benefits to justify it. Were I able to point to siginificant lost revenue and declining attendence then yes that would be another matter. I have not seen any proof offered that Gencon is losing substantial money from its inaction or would gain substantial revenue from taking action. Doing it solely to shut up some posters on the Gencon forums isn't worth it.

Mmm...no? All customers are not worth the trouble. 

Business decisions are and should be made in favor of the largest benefit for the company and the largest/best group of customers. You will not and cannot satisfy 100% of the people, and the expense/trouble involved in trying to do so will sink any company. Why? Because there are always people who will not be satisfied with anything. Face it, some customers are there not for goods or services, but to entertain themselves through mischief. Plenty of ranting from that sort here, but they aren't the majority, nor even a significant minority.

And no, people like that are not worth the trouble professionally.

Actually, you are talking about different things. All customers are worth the trouble. PERIOD.

If you find that in a cost/benefit ratio you can only please 75% of your marketing sector, you make a choice to not respond to the wants of the other 25%. That's acceptable. However, you had best consider EVERY option that will get you close to 100%. I know there will always be a malcontent or two...or 100...but even their dissent can bring about a solution that will gain you an additonal customer or two.

You say there's nothing GenCon can do, or shouldn't spend the money to do it. I simply state that given what I and many others here know...the potential to alleviate a great deal of problems..maybe even solve the issue...is not costly, and highly available. If there's another reason...we may not know it. I do know however, that even IF there's no cost ratio that can solve this problem...the talk that some people aren't WORTH it....is what makes people walk away from companies, because eventually they look that way at everyone. I don't think GC is guilty of this, but I definately wouldn't want you guys in my customer service.

Hawkwinter:

 

Mmm...no? All customers are not worth the trouble. 

Business decisions are and should be made in favor of the largest benefit for the company and the largest/best group of customers. You will not and cannot satisfy 100% of the people, and the expense/trouble involved in trying to do so will sink any company. Why? Because there are always people who will not be satisfied with anything. Face it, some customers are there not for goods or services, but to entertain themselves through mischief. Plenty of ranting from that sort here, but they aren't the majority, nor even a significant minority.

And no, people like that are not worth the trouble professionally.

Actually, you are talking about different things. All customers are worth the trouble. PERIOD.

If you find that in a cost/benefit ratio you can only please 75% of your marketing sector, you make a choice to not respond to the wants of the other 25%. That's acceptable. However, you had best consider EVERY option that will get you close to 100%. I know there will always be a malcontent or two...or 100...but even their dissent can bring about a solution that will gain you an additonal customer or two.

You say there's nothing GenCon can do, or shouldn't spend the money to do it. I simply state that given what I and many others here know...the potential to alleviate a great deal of problems..maybe even solve the issue...is not costly, and highly available. If there's another reason...we may not know it. I do know however, that even IF there's no cost ratio that can solve this problem...the talk that some people aren't WORTH it....is what makes people walk away from companies, because eventually they look that way at everyone. I don't think GC is guilty of this, but I definately wouldn't want you guys in my customer service.

Every customer is worth it? Really? The shoplifters are worth it? Those just looking for a reason to sue you are worth it? Those who vandalize your property are worth it?

And when you are bending over backwards and spending a disproportinate amount of time on the chronic complainers what are you doing for your good customers? Ignoring them is what. You obviously want as many customers as you can get but when the customer is just there to steal or make trouble or when they negatively impact your other customers (by their rudeness, uncleanliness etc) or by their monopolizing too much of your staff's time you are better off showing them the door.

facade:

Every customer is worth it? Really? The shoplifters are worth it? Those just looking for a reason to sue you are worth it? Those who vandalize your property are worth it?

I wouldn't consider those individuals as customers.  To me, a customer is a person who is there to purchase a product or service that is for sale.  The shoplifter, potential lawsuit and vandal aren't there for that; they are only there to serve themselves.

Hawkwinter:

All customers are worth the trouble. PERIOD.

The use of caps does not translate that into fact. You may continue to state your opinion, but that isn't practical business reality. 

We aren't talking about the transcendental value of human life here, we're talking about "is decision X going to make or cost money in the long run?" There isn't that much to it.

Hawkwinter:

You say there's nothing GenCon can do, or shouldn't spend the money to do it.

I've said nothing of the sort. I suggest that you read the comments of others more carefully before you make false statements. Point of fact, I've said the opposite, and the past five years have shown improvement in the registration process.

They are spending money on their registration system. If it will bring them additional revenues, they should spend more money on it. If it won't bring them additional revenues, they should not spend more money on it. This isn't very complicated, you know. 

Hawkwinter:

I simply state that given what I and many others here know...

Think you know. That's a really important word to leave out, and it's reflective of some folks here to assume they have all the answers. Unless you know the precise nature of the technical and financial issues involved, you are still speculating. That's fine, but there's a big leap between uninformed opinion and business reality. 

Hawkwinter:

 

I don't think GC is guilty of this, but I definately wouldn't want you guys in my customer service.

Uncalled for, but by the same token, I really wouldn't care to work for someone who doesn't possess any business acumen. I value professionalism too much.

Again, you seem very wrapped up in the idea of people's "worth" as a point of contention. This isn't about the value of someone as a human being. GCLLC can't spend enough money to equal the value of a human being, at least not in my opinion. That's not the issue. This is a business decision regarding the amount of money a company needs to spend (and thus, charge you) for your luxury event to be moderately less inconvenient. That's all.

Perspective moment: this is a small (in the scheme of real revenues), once-a-year entertainment event. There's not really any good reason for folks to get that upset over whether or not they got Harry Potter LARP tickets in the timeslot they wanted, or if they chose to spend part of their afternoon trying to get those tickets. This is such a luxury as to be unimaginable to the vast majority of people around the globe.

So as we sit here typing on our internet-connected computers, in our environmentally-controlled homes/offices, eating our snacks, enjoying our money-making, non-slave-labor jobs, arguing about whether or not a game convention company should or shouldn't spend more of our dollars on a ticket registration process, maybe, just maybe, we can try to keep a little perspective and not get quite so arrogant about our "rights" as consumers or indignant about how inconvenient all of this fun is.

CraftyShafty:

Perspective moment: this is a small (in the scheme of real revenues), once-a-year entertainment event. There's not really any good reason for folks to get that upset over whether or not they got Harry Potter LARP tickets in the timeslot they wanted, or if they chose to spend part of their afternoon trying to get those tickets. This is such a luxury as to be unimaginable to the vast majority of people around the globe.

So as we sit here typing on our internet-connected computers, in our environmentally-controlled homes/offices, eating our snacks, enjoying our money-making, non-slave-labor jobs, arguing about whether or not a game convention company should or shouldn't spend more of our dollars on a ticket registration process, maybe, just maybe, we can try to keep a little perspective and not get quite so arrogant about our "rights" as consumers or indignant about how inconvenient all of this fun is.

<<Applause>>

That really made my day!

Braelun:

facade:

Every customer is worth it? Really? The shoplifters are worth it? Those just looking for a reason to sue you are worth it? Those who vandalize your property are worth it?

I wouldn't consider those individuals as customers.  To me, a customer is a person who is there to purchase a product or service that is for sale.  The shoplifter, potential lawsuit and vandal aren't there for that; they are only there to serve themselves.

They are people who are entering your business claiming to be customers. In the end you have to make a decision whether you want them as a customer or not. For some the choice is easy. Obviously you catch someone stealing you don't want them back. But what about the less obvious crooks like those are looking for any excuse to demand their meal for free? Or those who buy clothes just to wear it at an event with the intention of returning it the next day? There are a lot of dishonest people out there. There are a lot of people with unrealistic expectaions. There are a lot of people without any consideration for anyone but themselves. If you are selling popcorn on the street you can shoot for 100%. If you have to factor in theft, dishonesty, vandals, inconsideration, insurance and service time your percentage is going to be a lot lower.

Only point I take issue with is this "money-making, non-slave-labor jobs". Since the government will confiscate your property and throw you in jail for not paying taxes working isn't a choice (unless you are lucky enough to be independently wealthy). You either live on the streets owning nothing or live a life of forced servitude aka a slave. Yeah our jobs pay more but we are in no way freer.

Crafty and Facade must not work in any type of customer service role whatsoever.  I have worked in restaurants all the way up to where I am now in a multi-national multi-billion dollar company, and in everywhere I have been we try to bend to make things right for every customer we have.  When I worked in the restaurants and someone complained enough for a free meal, even with the knowledge that they probably came in just to do that.....you ive them the free meal, the company makes enough to cover it (and food costs are set up to account for that believe it or not), and now, in the insurance industry, we still do it.  Someone wants a certain business rule (not law mind you) adjusted a little, we do it to get their business.  Its how the world works.  I am personally tired of calling a customer service line and getting a person who cares less about you as a customer, or going to a restaurant and the waitress is talking to a coworker rather than helping me.  Customers are who is most important, thats the fact, because without them, you dont have a company.  If you have to deal with the 2 or 3 percent who *** just to bich, oh well, deal with them, make them happy and go on with it. 

 Also, whoever said nobody had issues is just plain wrong.  You may not have had server issues, but a lot of people I have talked to, as well as myself, could not get onto the servers for hours, and by then all the events we were looking to go to were sold out (TD to be exact).  Like Artwork, I know my friends and I are not going to GenCon now because it isnt worth the 15 hour drive if we cant do the 1 thing we were looking most forward to. 

Doom3524:

When I worked in the restaurants and someone complained enough for a free meal, even with the knowledge that they probably came in just to do that.....you ive them the free meal, the company makes enough to cover it (and food costs are set up to account for that believe it or not), and now, in the insurance industry, we still do it. 

The "Insurance Industry" has friendly customer service in which the customer is always treated as being right?  On which planet?

Kidding aside, even if there were plenty of servers added and registration was a much quicker process, there is still NO guarantees that you would still be able to get the events you want.  Face facts, for something like TD, there are a limited amount of tickets per slot and you have a ever increasing fanbase for it, making it a veritable crapshoot to get those tickets if everyone logs at once for them.