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Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

Last post 06-04-2006 7:55 PM by Jirel_. 138 replies.
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  • 05-21-2006 6:48 PM

    Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    This is Peter Adkison's official response to Martin Ralya's open letter titled, "Peter Adkison Hates us: An Open Letter About GenCon Registration"

     

    Dear Martin Ralya, and everyone else who is curious about this issue,

     

    First, my apologies for the slow response. I don’t have a great excuse for taking so long to write. It’s just that the whole Gen Con registration situation is one of those heart-wrenching topics that’s been difficult for me to know how to deal with. For the last couple of weeks, whenever I looked at my to-do list I’d see the item, “Respond to Martin Ralya’s post,” and just not feel up to it and move on to something more fun, like having a root canal, or calling my IRS agent.

     

    But, alas, I can’t put this off any longer, or I’m just compounding “bad registration system performance” with an image that not only do I hate you, I don’t care about you either. Those of you who know me know that’s not true, but a slow response on my part certainly hasn’t helped the situation.

     

    So here I am, fumbling with words, trying to figure out how to begin.

     

    The main reason that this problem has been difficult to fix is that it’s a problem we only have once or twice a year. What this means is that when you have a theory on how to fix the problem, it takes a whole year to figure out if your theory was correct or not. If you're a cook and you cook a bad dinner, you can try again the next day, and within a week you've had 7 points along the learning curve. But with this problem, we have to wait a whole year between each instance on the learning curve. This drags out the improvement process considerably.

     

    The problem is that we’re running along day-to-day, no problems. Then Indy event reg goes live and WHAM we’re hit with something like 10-100 times as much traffic as normal. And, of course, something goes wrong. We try and fix it best we can “real time” but, of course, that’s nearly impossible, but by day 2 or 3 we’re over the hump and things are moving along. Then we look at the whole situation in more detail and the tech guys go, “Here’s a list of things we can do that will improve the situation.” Then we talk about how much these fixes will cost, we weigh against other priorities, and decide upon a course of action.

     

    Then we implement these changes, or at least some or most of them.

     

    Then the next year when Indy event reg rolls around we all bite our nails and hope for the best.

     

    And this year it looked at first as if we’d finally licked the problem. Whereas last year we had 632 people successfully register for an event during the first day of Indy event reg, this year we had 2,673 people successfully do so. And the average processing time per attendee was way less. In fact, most of these 2,673 registrants concluded their registration during the first four hours of the system going live, whereas last year it took almost to the end of day 3 to hit that level. We were quite excited around the office, getting ready to break out the champaign.  Four times as many registrants on opening day!  Woo hoo!

     

    But then I started hearing about the problems. Even though wait times were significantly reduced, it still wasn’t at satisfactory levels for many of you.

     

    So, what do I do?

     

    Honestly, I’m not sure.

     

    The tech guys have told me that they’ve identified a bunch more things they could do to improve the system, without a huge additional outlay of cash.  Things like moving some of the processing to a different server, optimizing the code, etc. So, we’re going to do those things and see how much that improves things for next year. Maybe it’ll be enough that performance is “acceptable”, or maybe we’ll still have a problem. But as long as we can find reasonable things to do to improve things, and those things actually do that, I feel we’re on the right track.

     

    Another thing I’ve been looking at is the question, “How many people are suffering, and how badly?”  If I’m reading the consensus correctly the main concerns are as follows: double charging due to the shopping cart not clearing correctly, events selling out, and over all processing time.

     

    I’d think the biggest of these issues is the processing time. The shopping cart problem affected about 150 of you and we think we’ve fixed this problem for next year and, of course, we’ve refunded all the double-charges. Embarassing, but I think we can move on without additional therapy. Regarding the problem of events selling out, that’s disappointing, but I think everyone understands that if Monte Cook runs a D&D game, there’s no way we can “ramp up” that event to accommodate 200 people. So I’m assuming the main issue is processing time.

     

    So, let’s look at the data…

     

    I had our tech guys pull the data on the first six hours of event registration. During these six hours, 433 people purchased event tickets. Of these 433 people, 112 were able to purchase their event tickets in under 10 minutes. For 146 people it was 10-20 minutes, for 89 people 20-30 minutes, for 48 people 30-40 minutes, for 29 people 40-50 minutes, for 8 people it took 50-60 minutes, and for one poor soul, over an hour. 

     

    So this begs the question, what’s acceptable?  On most days, I’d say you should be able to get through this process in under 10 minutes.  But on the opening day of event registration for the largest consumer games convention in North America?  And given that this includes all the shopping time, looking at event listings to decide what to pick, picking something else if what you wanted isn’t available, and eventually making the final decision and going through the shopping cart routine?  Sure, 5 minutes would be nice, but for this situation I think 30 minutes is probably acceptable, especially since most of you are probably doing this from the convenience of your home or office computer, possibly playing computer games or eating lunch in the meantime (way better than standing in line onsite).

     

    If that’s a reasonable goal, then how many people did we disappoint?  Well, according to this data, that would be 86 people.

     

    I certainly don’t want to disappointed even one person.

     

    But how much should I spend to fix a problem for 86 people?  A serious upgrade would cost about $100,000 or more.

     

    So there’s the situation. As far as I can tell, all this hub bub is over just 86 people, all but one of which still finished in under an hour.

     

    I gotta say, this doesn’t seem that bad. It certainly doesn’t seem worth spending $100,000 to $200,000 to fix.

     

    Could I just take the 86 of you to dinner instead?  It would be a lot more fun and cost a lot less money!

     

    Anyway, now you see why its been hard for me to respond. I sound like a jerk if I trivialize the problem. So, instead, I’m doing exactly what I did last year, which is to listen to the tech guys, conclude that the list of things they want to do to improve performance is sufficient (they do have what looks like a reasonable list), and go forward with that.

     

    I apologize to those of you who feel this isn't sufficient, but I think this is our most prodent course of action.

     

    Sincerely yours,

    Peter D Adkison 

    Member of the Board, Gen Con LLC
    CEO and Chairman, Hidden City Games Inc
  • 05-21-2006 7:31 PM In reply to

    • foXXtail
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    Thank you so much for your well thought out reply!  I think everyone here knows that you don't hate them, but I'm sure some folks will find it refreshing to know that you're thinking about and addressing any problems. 

    I was one of the lucky people in the "10 minute" range, and I am particularly fascinated by the numbers you provided.  It really shows why some people were fine with registration (like myself) and others were highly frustrated. 
  • 05-21-2006 7:34 PM In reply to

    • dtb
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    Wow! Great to hear from ya'!

    Thanks.

    PeterAdkison:
    The tech guys have told me that they’ve identified a bunch more things they could do to improve the system, without a huge additional outlay of cash.  Things like moving some of the  processing to a different server, optimizing the code, etc.
    Um, adding servers and optimizing code was suggested at least one or two years ago... Your tech guys just figured out that's what they should be doing? Um, yeah...

    PeterAdkison:
    If that’s a reasonable goal, then how many people did we disappoint?  Well, according to this data, that would be 86 people.
    Statistics are a funny thing... in the case of this statistic - I'm willing to believe that a lot more than 86 people were disappointed by how registration went this year...


    EDIT: The main problem with the statistic quoted is this: it only measures how things went for those that were able to get a response from the web servers... So, there are no log records available for those that failed to get a connection... So, where's the statistic measuring all those that failed to get a connection to the web servers, eh? When you can compare how things went for both groups of people, you may have a meaningful statistic at that point... /END EDIT

    PeterAdkison:
    But how much should I spend to fix a problem for 86 people?  A serious upgrade would cost about $100,000 or more.
    That'd certainly buy some nice hardware - but, most of the folks arouind here will probably tell ya' that you could probably get a lot more bang for your buck spending a whole lot less...





    Consider this: while it's true that your registration system is "secured" with an SSL certificate - according to Verisign - your registration system's SSL is misconfigured. I was curious - So I talked to them (Verisign) about it - and they confirmed - in no uncertain terms - that there needs to be an Intermediate CA certificate installed... Now - as far as I know - your tech people are either unaware of it or don't believe it's true... So you'll excuse me if I have my doubts regarding how well things are going...

  • 05-21-2006 8:12 PM In reply to

    • MrShiny
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    Peter, your reply was even more disheartening than no reply.  You state you cannot test except for once a year.  Peter, hundreds of other companies do things much like this many times a year.  All you have to do is look at them and see what they do.  I can bet you none of them has a system anything like yours - and for good reason.

    Sure, there are few who are really impacted - but saying, should you spend $100,000 (a SMALL fraction of Gen Con Indy's revenues, btw) for "86 people" is ridicuolus.  You have no idea how many people have already been disheartened.  And those 86 were the ones who kept hitting reload to get through.  How many gave up?  How many unique hits were there on registration.gencon.com that did NOT result in an sort of transaction?

    10 minutes is a JOKE.  Would you buy a book from Amazon.com if it took your 10 minutes to complete your transaction?

    There is no excuse for an event of this size that there cannot be a system that does not demand so much of people's increasingly busy time.

    Even if you do NOTHING, each year more and more people will get through - because the total number of people trying will be less and less. 

    Peter, you make one fatal mistake.  You keep looking at it in terms of what it was like the year before. Stop doing that.  Look at what it should be and make it like that.  I proposed you abandon this online system (which you unwilling to invest in properly) and go to a batch system (much like the mail in system that served Gen Con for decades, but with te benefit of guaranteed delivery of a customer's request and notification in days, not weeks).

    It's broken - and the "best case" solution you describe for next year is still broken.  This is the customer's first contact with Gen Con.  Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, there are folks out there who try to get into the site, fail and then do not even attend because of it?  Those people are not on these boards, but they are the key to Gen Con's growth and survival. 

    The registration system can be so much more than a hugely long process (and 10 minutes online is hugely long), it can be an ambassador for the whole Gen Con experience.  It could drive sales (say, you just bought a ticket to True Dungeon, would you like some tokens?  What about a Gen Con back pack preordered and waiting on site for you?  You ordered a XXL t-shirt last year, would you like one again?).  You are thinking way way way IN the box - and we both know that did not get you where you are today. 

    Peter, what you are thinking is wrong and it is not in the best interest of Gen Con.

     

    Jeff Carey

     

     

     

  • 05-21-2006 8:26 PM In reply to

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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    PeterAdkison:

    During these six hours, 433 people purchased event tickets.

     

    How many tried and could not purchase event tickets?  That is the real issue, not how many eventually got through.

  • 05-21-2006 8:35 PM In reply to

    • Vallan
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    MrShiny:
    PeterAdkison:

    During these six hours, 433 people purchased event tickets.

     

    How many tried and could not purchase event tickets?  That is the real issue, not how many eventually got through.



    Is there any reliable way of measuring this number (tried to get through and didn't)? 
    If there is, it is a helpful statistic for what needs improving. 
    If there isn't, it is a lovely thing to banter about, but ultimately pointless.

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  • 05-21-2006 9:15 PM In reply to

    • dontadow
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    I'm glad for some response, but I still do not understand how you can accept failure year after year and chalk it up to "oh well that didnt work".  Even stepping away from the IT part of it, if I run a company, I am not going to accept failure year after year. Trust me, the people whom ran IT the year before certinaly would not be running it the year after.  I dont understand why you guys havn't consulted anyone outside of your circle.  It is appparent by now that the staff is incapable of knowing how to deal with the problem and there are tons of qualified IT people whom do.  This is evident not only in the crashes but the planning.  Whose crazy idea was it to schedule all the true dungeon ticket sales on the same day as your highest traffic.  You essentially raised traffic on that day for no reason.  Or whose plan was it to immediately destroy the forums and information without any notice. 

    It just seems like the IT department has led a series of mismanagement that has been a problem for years.  I am grateful we are not writing in event scheds anymore.  But its been four years and the system still seems archaic and has not grown ..at all.  If you can't do it inhouse, why not outsource it.
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  • 05-21-2006 9:42 PM In reply to

    • neonpenguin
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    Peter-

    I believe you've hit the nail on the head in the line "...without a huge additional outlay of cash..."

    I, and many others I fell certain, appreciate your taking your time to venture into this morass
    of customer service. That being said, please keep in mind the target demographic of many
    gamers tends to be those that are _very_ well versed in computer technologies.

    It has been pointed out many times over the past few years steps that can be taken to
    minimize the hardships gencon takes on the chin each time we register. Sometimes the suggestions
    have been listened to, but most of the time they seem to fall on deaf ears. (if that's not the case, the
    overwhelming silence on the issue makes it feel like deaf ears are listening.)

    As a system administrator, who's job it is to make the hardware and websites work for a publicly traded company, and previously a large university(over 30,000 concurrent realtime users), I would point you at services that exist to service companies just like gencon, who need short term, burst processing power from both their network pipes as well as their systems. If you've looked into this, let us know so we can stop harping on it.

    And while your numbers are pulled from successful purchases, they are only part of the story.
    How many failed queries did your servers have in the error logs? I would point you there for
    a clue on a full picture of the day's events. Not just the folks who walked away with receipts.

    I know I at least am not represented in the above numbers. It took me over 4 hours to get into the
    system, process my events, and clear the problems in my cart and check out (and without a final
    verification _ever_ from gencon that my order had been processed. I had to call my credit card company for that.

    As to the point of not being able to test, but once you are in production... There are many free tools that will give you the loads that you seek on your systems that will allow you to produce valid testing data in the down windows. (again, those have been spoken of quiet a bit in the past.)

    For further anedotal information, a friend had the same 4 hour window I did for processing his purchases. Another had a 15 minute window, still others that I know choose to only attend one
    day this year and not register for any events.

    I don't envy your position. You will be hated no matter what you do. On one hand, raise prices to pay for infrastructure, or let infrastructure slide to the detriment of customer service.

    I of course would lobby for the better infrastructure. Otherwise, even if it is the best 4 days of gaming, it's just not worth the worst 4 hours of registration.

  • 05-21-2006 10:16 PM In reply to

    • The Science
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    MrShiny:

    10 minutes is a JOKE.  Would you buy a book from Amazon.com if it took your 10 minutes to complete your transaction?

    I don't think that's a fair comparison.  Imagine that the book in question is (e.g.) the new Harry Potter book, and Amazon.com was the only place you could buy it, and everyone was trying to buy it at the same time.  Certainly I would tolerate a 10 minute wait!

    Granted, the system is far from perfect, but I think that the supporting data is lacking for a claim that the system is "broken" to be made.

     

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  • 05-21-2006 10:17 PM In reply to

    • AvatarArt
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    talk about a tip

    PeterAdkison:
    Could I just take the 86 of you to dinner instead?  It would be a lot more fun and cost a lot less money!
    I'll take you up on that, but I'm ordering lobster AND dessert.

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  • 05-22-2006 12:27 AM In reply to

    • MrShiny
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    The Science:
    MrShiny:

    10 minutes is a JOKE.  Would you buy a book from Amazon.com if it took your 10 minutes to complete your transaction?

    I don't think that's a fair comparison.  Imagine that the book in question is (e.g.) the new Harry Potter book, and Amazon.com was the only place you could buy it, and everyone was trying to buy it at the same time.  Certainly I would tolerate a 10 minute wait!

    Granted, the system is far from perfect, but I think that the supporting data is lacking for a claim that the system is "broken" to be made.

     

     

    But that's millions of people worldwide.  At the best estimates we are given here, we are talking a few thousand people trying to get through the first day.  Heck, if you look at it like Peter does, it's only 433 (he's assuming no one tried the first hour and gave up, or had to keep trying beyond that first hour).

    To make a better analogy - if I was buying tickets for a concert that about 3,000 other peope were at the same time, yes, I'd still expect response time less than 10 minutes.  A lot less. 

  • 05-22-2006 12:55 AM In reply to

    • NDGeekboy
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    Peter, I'm sorry but your information sounds extremely skewed, the only sample being those who successfully - and quickly - registered.  433 people registered in the first six hours?  That's just a little better than 70 people per hour.  The system should not have been as bogged down as it was, if that truly were the case. 

    If it actually did take me only an hour to register for those events I wanted, I would've been content.  If it took only ten minutes, I would have been ecstatic - and I'd take you out to dinner!

    But it didn't.  It took me over an hour just to pull up the login screen and then over an hour longer to register.  And even then I couldn't check out; I had to log back in that evening to pay for everything and tweak my schedule.  I managed to register for about 20 events.  Another forumite wanted to register for just one; he spent four hours trying to do that - and couldn't.

    These 433 registrants aren't a truly representative sample.  Please, have your CS people put together a survey about the registration process and email it to everyone who has registered.  Ask questions such as what date and time did you register; how long did it take; were you able to check out; how many events did you register for; about how many problems did you have, including time-outs, server not found, page not found, or other errors; and perhaps leave a space for people to elaborate specifically and only on their registration experience.

    Only then can you really find out what's been happening on this side of the computer screen.

    Thanks.

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  • 05-22-2006 12:59 AM In reply to

    • Parody
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    First off, thank you for the response. This is going to generate a lot of commentary from us, so hopefully you'll continue to respond. :)

    FWIW, If I could have a 30 minute registration experience, I'd love it. I'm not in your statistics because I got my first ticket right away but didn't check out until late that night. My total at-the-computer time on registration day (two days for last year) has been multiple hours in every year of online registration. Some year I'd like to spend significantly less time sitting at the computer on Gen Con registration day than I spent waiting in line under the old mail-in system.

    You should also compare this year to two years ago, since last year's numbers are understandably skewed during the first day due to server problems. I hope it was much better this year, but I suspect that you just got back to where you were. I'm glad that you did, but that doesn't mean you've really improved anything in the long run. (I wish we had the old forum archives, since I don't remember what the stated problem was last year and thus how to judge the relevance of last year's numbers.)

    Some questions:

    How many hours was registration officially up during the first 24 hours last year? (According to a post I found on Google's cache, it was officially down from 5 PM to 7 AM Pacific. That gives 24 hours vs. 10 of official uptime and about 111 registrations per hour this year vs. 63 last year. Given that last year the server was nigh-unusable before the official server shutdown and many people couldn't redo their real-life schedules to do registration the next morning, I think this makes sense.)

    In your purchase times, are you going from "logged into registration.gencon.com" (or opening time for those who logged in early) to "checked out"? Does "purchase" mean "finished the checkout process"?

    How many people got tickets into their cart in the first 5 hours but didn't check out until after the first 6 hours? (All of these people are outside your statistics but should be added to the 86 people you "hate" since their experience was more than 30 minutes. I'm one of them. :)

    How many accounts checked out more than once in the first 6 hours? How many extra checkouts did they generate? (A few people said they'd put one specific event into their cart, check out, then go back and get other things or stop and come back later to fill in their schedules. I assume they've been counted multiple times in your statistics; hopefully there aren't very many.)

    While I doubt much will come of this post (or any of our responses) as you've already stated what's going to happen, I hope that this post gives you some things to think about and that it helps improve the registration experience in some way.

  • 05-22-2006 1:03 AM In reply to

    • MrShiny
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    NDGeekboy:

    These 433 registrants aren't a truly representative sample.  Please, have your CS people put together a survey about the registration process and email it to everyone who has registered.  Ask questions such as what date and time did you register; how long did it take; were you able to check out; how many events did you register for; about how many problems did you have, including time-outs, server not found, page not found, or other errors; and perhaps leave a space for people to elaborate specifically and only on their registration experience.

    Only then can you really find out what's been happening on this side of the computer screen.

    Thanks.

    Yes - that would be great.  Also next year, no matter what the solution, I strongly suggest that you, Peter, try to register yourself and see how it goes (and try from outside the Gen Con corporate network). 

     

  • 05-22-2006 1:12 AM In reply to

    • MrShiny
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    We already know from Peter's own numbers that aside from that 433 who registered in the first 6 hours there were 2,240 who registered the first day, but not the first six hours.  Wanna bet most of those folks were trying during the first 6 hours? 

    And then there are those who gave up, and worse yet thouse that didn't even try this year because of the last two years. 

     

  • 05-22-2006 1:31 AM In reply to

    • NDGeekboy
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    A lot of them probably had events in their carts but couldn't check out.

    Maybe one thing we need to do is define "registration time."  From the sounds of things, Peter might be going from time of successfully logging in to GenCon's registration screen to successfully checking out.

    Me, it starts from getting onto the GenCon site itself.  It took me a good hour-plus just to get the login screen to pull up.

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  • 05-22-2006 5:15 AM In reply to

    • CyberHare
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    Thank you for the reply Peter. I completely understand why you were hesitant to respond as no matter what was said there are always some that will complain.

     

    Personally it took me about 90 minutes to register and I was perfectly happy with the process. If that got down to 30 minutes I would be quite happy as I believe the vast majority of people would.

     

    If I may suggest. Next year start registrations earlier in the day. Start the True Dungeon events 6 hours before general registration and RPGA events 3 hours before. You might even consider making each day of con events available at staggered time intervals. Spread out the process. Yes it'll defeat the "in and out in under 60 seconds" idea that some have sugested. Honestly though, if you want to get tickets on the opening day of a big event then "waiting in line" is par for the course whether it be out in the rain or at your computer with a good book and a nice cup of coffee.

     

    CyberHare

  • 05-22-2006 7:17 AM In reply to

    • Jirel_
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    Where was I in your statisitc?

    Peter said: I had our tech guys pull the data on the first six hours of event registration. During these six hours, 433 people purchased event tickets. Of these 433 people, 112 were able to purchase their event tickets in under 10 minutes. For 146 people it was 10-20 minutes, for 89 people 20-30 minutes, for 48 people 30-40 minutes, for 29 people 40-50 minutes, for 8 people it took 50-60 minutes, and for one poor soul, over an hour. 

    It took me 3 hours to get onto the server.  During that time I had to re-sign on at least twice due to time outs.  WHEN I could sign on I accessed events within 10 mins.  How did your people gather their statistics?  I'm not in there. I guess my question is - do you belive the statistics or us?  My guess is you believe your statistics.  You are welcome to take me out to dinner at the Steak House (I can't think of the name right now but I went there last year and they have great steaks) next to the Canterbury Hotel where I am staying.  I make about $29.80 an hour.  I spent 3 hours solid trying to sign on from work and 2 more hours after I got home.  There will be three of us at GenCon this year.  I'll pay for one of us, you can pay for the other two.

    Cindy Sue says - Reintarnation is coming back to life as a hillbilly.

    My LJ

  • 05-22-2006 7:48 AM In reply to

    • The Science
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    Re: Peter Adkison Doesn't Hate All Of You -- Just 86 Of You!

    MrShiny:

    We already know from Peter's own numbers that aside from that 433 who registered in the first 6 hours there were 2,240 who registered the first day, but not the first six hours.  Wanna bet most of those folks were trying during the first 6 hours? 

    And then there are those who gave up, and worse yet thouse that didn't even try this year because of the last two years. 

     

    That's a really good point. 

    I guess it all boils down to the financial bottom line (which is, admittedly, not very forward-thinking).  Change will only occur when the pain of maintaining the current system starts to outweigh the pain of changing.   And as long as Gen Con attendance remains similar to previous years, I doubt we'll see any real improvement.

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  • 05-22-2006 7:56 AM In reply to