Gen Con LLC Community

 ok, just an observation, but does anyone think WOTC is dong pretty poorly lately? 

1)they had a much smaller booth. well, smaller by their standards, but still. quite a few other smaller companies had much bigger booths.

2)they cut out their swag give, once known as the Dragons Hoard. in the past, you demo'd games, then got in line, rolled a giant D20, and got some nice swag. the volounteers said they couldn't afford the space. 

 Are they losing money on teh 4th edition sales? for me, demo'ing teh games, getting the nice swag from WOTC was my my main objective in the dealer hall. Doesn't make sense, since once i've gotten to demo a game, i've always foudn some new product i would NOT have played, yet became a new customer for them, buying more product. add in cancelation of Gleemax, small booth, etc. just seems rather ominous. 

I don't know if they were doing poorly. I personally thought they had smaller space due to how late in the game they registered for the space. I actually kind of liked that they were in the back this year, or just in a corner in general. It made it a lot easier to get around the hall. And I actually got to get inside their booth and look around get something this year. I hadn't in years past, because it's just always been so busy that one can't really move around it without bumping into someone. So I thought that was nice. But I can understand frustrations about the lack of the d20. It is sad that it wasn't there. Hopefully things aren't bad for them! 

 I think Sonjas right, and the diminished presence was due to the extremely late confirmation of attendance. 

Personally, I think WOTC has missed the boat with the 4E rollout.  The booth was smaller, lack of swag, late vendor registration, problems with the licensing, gleemax gone.....whatever you're personal favorite malady, I believe WOTC is in the middle of a monumental stumble.

Maybe they botched their save roll?

I heard one of the WoTC staff say that they did not have the demo/dice roll swag because they were so spread out this year. I know that they had the RPGA room with dungeon delves and minis on the second floor of the ICC and Magis/Star Wars minis in the TCG hall as well as the booth area in the Main hall. It was a bummer not to demo and roll, but it did give me more of a chance to play other things and talk with other booths.

 FFG was the clear winner to me overall considering how much new product they had and the amount of demos going on.

I have to agree with Draven, that WotC missed the boat with the chance to push 4th edition. Very little swag and what they had was not great and difficult to get.  The mini and the pencil were good, but you had to wait and play the D & D demo, which was a huge time sink.  The hats / beanies / whatever are pretty craptastic as swag goes.  

Also, what is the deal with them having posters touting the new Forgotten Realms campaign setting, and only brining a few books?!?!?!  Their promo posters were something to the effect of "buy the new Forgotten Realms campaign setting at the WotC booth, then play the brand new campaign at the RPGA hall."  Except that they had really limited supplies of the book, something like only 300 a day.  Just very poor marketing all the way around for the new 4e release. 

I disagree that WotC was more spread out this year than any other year.   They have always had events in the CCG hall and the RPGA hall.  This year was no different.  

 I also seriously question people's assertions that they had a small booth because they registered late.  They are a the major sponsor of Gen Con.  I am sure that they get a booth the size they want, in the location they want.  I think that they decided to have a smaller booth with less swag and not to heavily promote 4th edition. 

See for me, if they register late sponsor or not, they were late to the game and should have, had a smaller area because it's not fair to everyone else who registered on time for their booth space. But this not knowing how much space was still availble at the time they did finally register. And I think Wizards understands that. I mean to allow them bigger space just seems like a bad business practice. And I think Wizards would understand not getting one.

 Now I did hear, when I bought my Sorcerous book, that they weren't allowed to bring the books in when they sold out. That they had to wait till the hall was empty each day as it was a fire hazard. Or so were the booth volunteers told or were at least telling people who came up and asked for the books.  But that's just my opinion.

I wanted to see a Burnt out building (Church) like the had for the A&A release.

 The first time I went through the area, I totally missed their booth.

 /Shrug

 Piazo & pathfinder is the future of D&D for me. My overall convention experience decided that.

My friends and I pretty much had the same response as everyone else--"Is this it?"

No huge Heroscape setup, no big brain, one little wall of product...it was just underwhelming.

And whoever said it was right, Fantasy Flight Games knows how to do a booth!  I got trapped in their booth for awhile because there was so many people in it.

Perhaps they were trying to duck bad publicity on 4e by having a smaller booth and no major events?  I mean to say that perhaps they thought that if they just left 4e as granted, made not many announcements and just took 4e as a fact of life that was in the past perhaps everyone else would?

The dice roll as fun as it was for attendees was probably a major headache for the volunteers, other booths and having a line going all the way around your boot prevents people from just wandering in.  I think they probably decided it was just in the end a bad idea.  There was alot less swag.  But giving away 3rd edition stuff isn't what they want to do either and they don't want to give away the stuff they are currently selling.

I didn't know WOtC was in Chapter 13?

I heard they only had 150 FR books for the con.  Even if it was per day, that's a ridiculously low amount; especially considering it was one the THE rollout products for Gen Con 08.  I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that post-con staff meeting "Uhm, yeah..okay.  Who's idea was it to bring the low amount of books to the con?"

In my opinion, short of their delivery system failing them, WOtC deserves all the bad press / rants / and generally pissed off postings coming their way.

 I'm guessing the ch.13 reference is to Gencon (misplaced logic anyway - the creditors would want to see Gencon wildly succeed)

I'm pretty surprised just how weak WOTC was this year.  All GREAT news for the super friendly, hard-working folks at Paizo, I'm sure.   

 It was interesting:  after observing this year's con, I'm convinced Gencon can succeed just fine without RPGA/WOTC dominance after all.   

 My wife and I were in an elevator dressed in costume for the Steampunk dance.  A local female asked what was going on.   A gamer with a RPG team tshirt spoke up and mentioned that it was Gencon.   We told her that we were headed to a Gencon costume party.   She asked what Gencon was.  The RPG-gamer proceeded to explain to her (quite defensively) that gencon's "main" purpose was to promote roleplaying games, using dice.  The phrase he used was something like: "every year all of us nerds get together and play D&D here."   I mentioned there were board and card games, too.   The RPG-gamer scoffed and reiterated that the "main" and "original" purpose of Gencon utilizes 20-sided dice, and something quirky about Gygax and the original convention in Lake Geneva.  He eventually wandered off the elevator oblivious to the fact that he was talking to himself.  

Despite how badly the die-hard RPG dude wants to isolate the rest of the Gencon community, it won't happen.   In fact, I'm starting to think that Gencon, like its playerbase, will continue to diversify beyond the d20.  As the con diversifies, so too will its sponsors, and the attitude prevelant among those who have a monopoly on certain licenses and products will actually have to change, and they will be forced to...*gasp*...compete for our gaming dollars.    Winner?  Us!

Ok...this is how bad rumors get started.

First of all, Chapter 13 is for individual wage earners, a corporation cannot file Chapter 13.

Secondly, WoTC is a subsidiary of Hasbro, without getting into a complex discussion of bankruptcy law, let's just say WoTC cannot just "file" Chapter 11 or any other chapter either.

So put the bankruptcy question with WoTC to bed.

I am no Wizards fan, and agree that their booth was a let-down, but I believe earlier posters are correct in their assessment that the smaller booth and poor planning was likely a result of late entry and bad logistical planning. I hope they do something better next year.

On another note, it seemed they ran more events with more tables this year. As someone else pointed out, they were very spread out, having bases of operations all over the convention center.

I also agree that GenCon does not need Wizards/RPGA to be a success. They help out certainly, and for the sake of the Con, I hope they will continue to support GC with all they can, but there are enough other events/activities/publishers around to have a successful con one way or another.

leapleyc:

I also agree that GenCon does not need Wizards/RPGA to be a success. They help out certainly, and for the sake of the Con, I hope they will continue to support GC with all they can, but there are enough other events/activities/publishers around to have a successful con one way or another.

Agreed, but their support is essential for True Dungeon, and I certainly don't want that to go away.

leapleyc:

I am no Wizards fan, and agree that their booth was a let-down, but I believe earlier posters are correct in their assessment that the smaller booth and poor planning was likely a result of late entry and bad logistical planning. I hope they do something better next year.

On another note, it seemed they ran more events with more tables this year. As someone else pointed out, they were very spread out, having bases of operations all over the convention center.

I also agree that GenCon does not need Wizards/RPGA to be a success. They help out certainly, and for the sake of the Con, I hope they will continue to support GC with all they can, but there are enough other events/activities/publishers around to have a successful con one way or another.

I'm sure Occam's Razor applies here, as everywhere else. Maybe they had a crippling lack of volunteers? I also have a feeling that the bad publicity and word of mouth over the new "Open System" threw a spanner in the works.  

Good point, it is wise to limit assumptions. Plus, the Con was fun (and will be) no matter how big or small the booth is. So long as I can play my games, and havea  good time, what more can I ask.

While I was not at GC08, as was there last year, and I attend all of the So Cal GC's.  I have to say that I've experienced a noticable decline in the swag from the WOTC booth.

The first couple years at So Cal, it was great.  While I never rolled a "20," I did witness others that did.  They won a large stack of swag that would not have fit my empty packpack even if I tried.  I rolled something like a "9" and still received a hard cover D&D book, PC sheets, a module, & a few packs of boosters.

The guy in charge of the d20 swag event last year at GC07 seemed pretty "jerky"...he just seemed bothered to be there.  I saw someone roll a "20" and he got a handful of figs and a novel or two.

Now, I'm not sure what the exact reason is that they're not givin' up the swag, but there is something going on.  Maybe they don't owe us gamers freebies, but ya kow, I've spent hundreds on D&D (and yes, specifically WOTC products) over the years, and giving back a bit to their comsumers doesn't seem like it should be that hard.  I would hope that they'll turn it around next year, but if my experience is the trend, it will just get worse.

Not to get too far off topic, but how would the WOTC swag comare to some of the other companies?  Would a few formites that attened share their experience?

 here's my experience wth WOTC and the swag

my first con ever was at Origins, probably 5 years ago.  Saw a guy and his wife each with Axis and Allies games, the big $50 games. Asked where they got it, and they said the Dragons Hoard. I went over, started demo'ing games,and really fell in love with Showdown major league baseball, the ccg. That year, they would let you roll a d20, and if you didn't have enough points, they'd let you do something silly. like, if you were good at trivia, they'd ask a  trivia question, or let you do a cartwheel, handstand, juggle..just something entertaining, to let you get some the nice board game or book, etc. i got my showdown starter set, then went home, got three of my friends to buy starter sets, and tons of cards, and we played. so, one demo, one free game=two more bought sets, and several hundred in card sells. and they were VERY generous with stuff. best experience i had with wotc. 

they pulled out of origins, so i ddint' get to go til last year, and i demo'd marvel heroscape. LOVED it. but this year, they were STRICT. and yes, the volounteer in front was an ass. was not happy to be there. And, they weren't giving out much. my buddy demo'd all 13 games, rolled a five, and just got a bag of figs. other buddy got an 11, and they wouldn't give him anything but a new booster pack of axis/allies mini's. i wanted that Marvel Heroscape starter set, which they only gave out if you got a crit 20. i got up in the batters box, gave the sign of the cross, closed my eyes...and...

20!!!!!!!

The place went NUTS!! i was high fiving everyone i could reach. and, i swear, the guy there didn't even smile, just said, "take whatever y ou want". almost like i was TAKING IT FROM HIM!  i snatched that up and ran with it. course, i went home, got my friends playing it, and two of my friends bought sets too. sadly, they're not supporting it anymore, no boosters or antyhing. 

So, goes to show that a small invest in swag directly correlates to more sales. i got to try games i would not have tried ordinarily, and loved them, and got my friends to buy their product also. And, they were always the hit of the con. most popular vendors in the hall. they've gone from that, to almost EVERY person i've met talking negative about the company, for one reason or another. and who were the hits of the con? wearing t shirts, carryign bags? privateer press, fantasy flight, etc. companies that demo'd games, gave out nice swag, gave deals. not that hard to figure out. they have an advertising budget, and while the cost of games, floor space, etc, can be a little high, its nothing compared to the ads in comics, online, etc. 

Time to chime in as a Self-Proclaimed SWAG horder.  This years Hall haul, was pathetic.  I can understand that the economy is rough, and companies have to cut back--but if it wasn't for us all stretching our budgets, they would not be there at all!!  Here's a small break-down of what SWAG I liked/didn't:

LIKED:

• Privateer Press bandanas were cool, fun for kids too.
• Legends of Norrath foam swords definitely a "hit" with my 6 year old. lol
• WoTC HeroScape limited fig was a nice addition to our set.
• Got a complete starter set from demoing Legends of the Five Rings at AEG.
• LOVE my Blue Dragon t-shirt!
• Got a kid-size t-shirt (that's a first for us) at the Lord of the Rings online booth.
• Freaky Creatures challenge was fun for us and our son, and he got some neat stickers and cards!  We can't wait to try out this very kid-appropriate game with him!
• Chaotic guy gave us a special foil card for our up-and-coming gamer kid.
• North Star games was the funnest booth by far for us--we played, and earned much Funny Money lol!  Then, a very nice lady gave us some she didn't need.  We had enough to "buy" the highest priced game outright--i.e. FREE, and had funny money left over!!  Then hubby spun the wheel and won another game by singing, "I'm a Little Teapot" while dressed as the JOKER!!  .  We ended up getting all three of their games and only paid $12.00!!!  That is AWESOME!!
• The best and most appreciated generous SWAG we received was from the Champions Online booth though.   **NOTE: He is 6 years old, has high-functioning Autism...and even more so then most of us, was at the end of his mental and physical rope on Sunday aftenoon.  Even so, he sat there patiently and even tried to toss out question topics to the Trivia guy.  Example: the guy asked for Super Villains--Denver shouts out Grey Gargoyle!!  I don't even know who that is lol!  He pretty much could not compete with all the adults that were surrounding him trying to win though.  One very awesome press lady, went in back and talked to some staff--let them know about our little super-hero enthusiast out front trying his hardest, and his room that is totally decorated in super hero stuff.  The next thing I know, our son "wins" a VERY nice backpack, with a t-shirt, and a very cool Super Hero skateboard deck!!  He is THRILLED and soo PROUD!!  He will be the only kid at school with that backpack for sure!!  To those guys at that booth, the Press lady, and that Volunteer--TY one million times over!  We will be joining this game, because of the treatment and kindness we received there.

Dislikes:

• WoTC lack of any other real swag--sorry, there is NO excuse.  They would have been preparing this kind of promotional stuff, long before the lawsuit started.
• Upper Deck--we got a lanyard there, which seemed to be the main thing anyone had this year, and that is it.  That is by far a shock, as I remember in 05' getting shirts, posters, cards, bracelets, etc.
• Wiz Kids--the live demos were cool to see once or twice--but the raffles required you to waste a LOT of time sitting there watching them over and over for only a few items being given out each round.  They weren't even doing many individual demos, where in the past we have gotten stuff like complete starter sets of Heroclix and etc.
• Official SWAG bags--Magic cards decks were nice, I always like free dice, our son liked the kid cards, but the rest was pretty much landfill.  Not to mention the piles of paper and plastic trash the people that got huge loads of bags, left all over the floor in the main hall, in the search for "sellable" SWAG.  
• Hardly any games for SWAG contests/scavenger type stuff ocurring.  
• So much space was taken up by e-Gaming, I would have like to have seen more SWAG from them!!  I got a few comics, and 3 game demo discs I believe. Oh, and a nifty temp tattoo.
• Very FEW free t-shirts overall.
• No free cups, mugs, etc that we came across.
• What happened to all the free items in the Coupon Book?!?!?

That's what my brain is recalling right this moment--too much pain from tearing knee ligaments Saturday.